November 29, 2007
Ghost Hunters Top 20
#10 – Moon River Brewery: Speaking of hunched over guys wearing sheets, the "apparition" in this video looks remarkably similar to the Eastern State Prison apparition in cell block 12, except much much clearer. Jason says it appears to come out from the wall but it's an optical illusion, the wall in question doesn't go all the way to the back of the room and we see the TAPS team walk behind it earlier in the investigation. Basically a black object slightly higher than a pool table comes out from that area, goes back and forth behind the pool table (but is careful not to go past the edge, lest more than just the top of it be seen) and then retreats behind the wall. If that's what a supernatural entity really looks like, then I guess there's no helping it but it really looks like a hunched over guy wearing a sheet to me.
#9 – Battleship North Carolina: In the bowels of the ship Jason and Grant hear what seems to be someone moving around near them and the squeaking and clanking of metal doors being open and shut. They chase it into an area of the ship that has only one way in and out but find nothing. Very creepy. Unfortunately the evidence relies heavily on Jason & Grant's hearing, and specifically their directional hearing so there is no way to completely rule out someone else down there hoaxing them.
#8 – Queen Mary: This is another famous one, the team is told about a bed that unmakes itself and sets up a standalone video camera in that room, which is far from the area of the ship they'll be investigating for the duration of the evening. Steve & Tango (then in his training phase) come back to the room and find the bed unmade, check the video and see the amazing footage of the bed unmaking itself — but Tango notes there is a skip in the footage (two, in fact) that proves it has been tampered with. They listen to the audio and determine you can hear the noise when the camera is paused and unpaused.
Basically someone snuck behind the bed and hoaxed the team. Jason & Grant have acknowledged that if it weren't for Dave Tango they very likely would have heralded the tape as terrific evidence of the paranormal — and quite possibly have egg on their face later on when some fan sees what they missed. This is a great example why it is a bad idea to go into the investigation with an "open mind" — it prevents you from looking real hard at every little detail to see if maybe something else is going on. As a side note, if Tango hadn't been there and the team had certified the video I suspect it probably would have ended up going something like how the Manson FLIR controversy went — buried rather than apologized for.
#7 – Eastern State Prison: This time it's the shadow from cell block 12 (the one you've heard so much about). Basically this IR camera is in near-pitch-black and stationed in the middle of the narrow walkway looking down cell block 12. On the left there is a railing, on the right there are (I believe) cells. The light we see is provided by the infrared LEDs around the camera — basically like a flashlight, it has limited distance. At the area where light meets dark we see the shadow seem to grow and then quickly retreat.
You'll see this mentioned all over this site because it's a particularly controversial piece of footage. At first even Jason said it looked like someone with a sheet over them playing a trick but then he let it stand as evidence and now Jason & Grant tout this scene as one of their favorites because, though they acknowledge the controversial nature of the "evidence" they claim that it's really great because it gets people discussing the paranormal and because people have such strong feelings on both sides. I say it sucks for that same reason and they'd be better off providing footage of something that doesn't look like a guy under a sheet, assuming they can obtain any.
#6 – Myrtles Plantation: The Incredible Moving Lamp (cord)! That's right, the controversy around this old favorite is apparently not well-known enough for TAPS to disassociate themselves from it, or at least acknowledge the controversy and make some bogus claim about how that makes it even more awesome. Really, I've got nothing to say on this. Just read the moving lamp page if you're unfamiliar with it.
#5 – Rolling Hills Asylum: Jason & Grant have a very real encounter in the basement of this building and they manage to get it on film. Of course, it's not a supernatural encounter, it's a bat. They decide to play a joke on the rest of the invetigators by sending each of the other two teams down there saying they've been hearing all sorts of strange noises and that's it's highly active. It was actually pretty funny.
#4 – Brenda's House: There is an EVP that seemed to say "I don't want any" or something. Brenda seemed to get emotional but I'm not sure about the context here — if she had lost a kid or something? I really don't know much about what went on with this investigation but it did sound like there was a kid talking on the recording, so definitely a noteworthy incident. Unfortunately I guess that was the only really intriguing piece of evidence obtained during that investigation.
#3 – RaceRock Lighthouse: The moving chair, yet another controversial incident makes it onto the list (and near the top no less!) — the short version is that Grant left a chair in the attic and it moved when no one was in the room with it. The long version is far less spine tingling. First of all, when Grant said he was going to sit up in the attic Jason asked him why and Grant seemed a little taken aback by the question, as if he didn't really have a good answer. After a moment he said it was to do EVPs and Jason was like, "Oh" and left.
Now, Grant is up there for a while, then he gets up and goes down the stairs and the chair moves — apparently in the unedited version it moves a bunch of times from what I'm told. The one time I saw it move it seemed clear that the chair moved exactly as it would if someone tied a string to one of the legs and then tugged on it from the bottom of the staircase. Interestingly, Jason didn't investigate and instead spent the evening fishing — which means someone might have got themselves some fishing line (nice and clear, definitely won't show up in a grainy, darkened image).
The most suspicious thing to me though is that Grant explained the reason he left the attic is because it was too hot up there and he couldn't stay up there any longer. This begs the question: Why on earth would you leave behind the folding chair you brought with you? What possible reason could you have for leaving that chair behind if you knew you weren't coming back? Gah! It's things like this that really make me shake my head, especially at the true-believers who fawn over every piece of evidence TAPS brings home. After I saw this I was very hesitant to believe any evidence collected by Grant when he was alone.
#2 – Crescent Hotel: For those of you who know this one already, you might be thinking what I'm thinking — which can be summed up in three letters and a punctuation: WTF? This was early on in the show and Grant was using the FLIR (a piece of equipment the team still to-this-day appears to poorly understand) and caught what was apparently a civil war soldier with a number 2 on his arm standing in front of a locker. At least it was apparent to him. To a lot of other people it was apparent that Grant recorded his own reflection in the locker door.
They claimed they debunked the reflection but it looked more like Grant said, "I was standing right about here", Jason saying, "I don't see a reflection" and that was that. Meanwhile if Grant had moved 10 inches to one side maybe he would have seen the reflection. J & G focused on the 2 glowing hot but the 2 was probably just a more reflective material or color than the rest of the locker. Lots of people smarter than me have spent hours poring over this footage and it's generally agreed that the figure is very similar to Grant, from his "hat" (Grant's hair) to the fact that he appears to be looking down at something in his hand (the FLIR).
This footage being ranked #2 is the epitome of the disconnect between TAPS and skeptical fans of the show. They claim they go into an investigation looking to disprove hauntings but their debunking attempts seem halfhearted and rather than shelving a piece of evidence that has a pretty plausible "normal" explanation they assume it must be paranormal unless proven otherwise. Not only that, but they count it as some of their most prized footage even years later after it has been heavily criticized by a lot of smart folks who's only beef with the show is that they want higher standards for evidence.
#1 – New Bedford Armory: Apparently Frank getting smacked in the face with his bag (See the TAPS #4 favorite invetigation location on the "TAPS: Revelations" page) is their #1 favorite Ghost Hunters moment. Frankly I'm astonished that a few of my favorites didn't make the list but then again if you start off by assuming there's no trickery going on and no mistakes being made then I guess some of these other moments seem a lot more spooky. That being said, while I might not put this at #1 myself it certainly is an interesting incident because there is camera footage of the actual event and there doesn't appear to be any likely "normal" explanation, so perhaps either something unlikely (but still normal) occurred, or maybe something else entirely.
In any case, that wraps this up. See you folks soon!
- L
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Comments on Ghost Hunters Top 20 »
Gregory @ 4:34 am
Regarding #4 Brenda's House: If I recall correctly, the EVP supposedly said, "They don't want me." Brenda was upset that the sweet little ghost felt rejected.
I don't know, maybe it's just me, but when I hear something that's supposed to be an EVP it typically sounds more like, "Brrr frap bzzzt grrr blah blah frap blah spuzzz…."
Paul Anthony @ 10:14 am
EVP
It isn't so much the way things are recorded that brings up the possibility of debate, but the way that the human ear hears and how the brain processes it. It leaves us wide open for interpretation of many simple observable phenomena. The same hold true when we see the image of a face.Look at an object log enough and you will see a face.
When Grant and Jason visit the client and discuss the reveal If an EVP was discovered they will in 99% of the cases Make a suggestion as to what they think was recorded. This is implanting false information.
One more thing. After they complete an investigation they tell the client they will go over all the evidence. What evidence. Evidence is something you discover after you view the results of the investigations. Wrong choice of words.
You All do a great job.
All these things can make people seek patterns.The more likely explanation is pareidolia or Apophenia
Dave @ 11:45 am
Paul,
Re: EVPs
I think that there’s more than matrixing going on, although I believe this is often true.
Some of the EVPs are too loud and articulate and, I suspect, most of them are background noises or accidental voices made, and perhaps occasionally faked.
Here’s some more about EVPS:
http://paranormalresearchgroup.com/images/stories/theimportanceofbackuprecording.pdf
– Dave
Shawn @ 8:39 pm
On the Queen Mary episode, I don't know if I buy that Tango stumbled upon it so much as he was probably looking for it. The monitor they were watching it on wasn't that big – in fact, they even had to blow it up for the TV audiences to see what they were talking about. I think Tango was in on it with the others and saw right away that it wasn't going to fly and had to call it out.
I've always suspected that Tango was brought on because of his background as a fully trained magician, something I find rather suspicious. On the "Darkness on the Edge of Town" paranormal radio show, Brian Harnois confessed that Tango had ZERO Ghost Hunting experience when he made the TAPS team a few years back. Well that begs the question, why then would they bring him on board, other than the fact that he was adept at doing slight of hand tricks?
One other thing about that episode, notice how J & G immediately start to spout off how they don't think anyone from the Queen Mary would do this – almost as if they knew blame would have to fall on their hosts for TAPS' own stunt which backfired on them. Just my perception anyway.
Stefani @ 1:29 am
I love this site, very down to earth. Great points are brought up. I like the GH show, but you just can't ignore the discrepancies. I watch it to laugh at some of the things they come up with. It is nice to see that others question the same things that I have noticed. I taped a couple episodes and noticed some other things that don't really have to do with experiences, but just to keep things real about what it is you are really watching – a TV show for entertainment.
1. There was an episode, I believe it was at the OK Corral where they got Steve to put on a cowboy hat. He took off his ball cap and put the cowboy hat on, then the GH crew all started clapping, then the camera turns real quick when they are going back in the building and he has the ball cap on again, then in the next scene exactly after he has the cowboy hat on. I would not have noticed it because it is quick, but since I taped it I could replay it. The way they were talking it was a continuous scene, but it had to be edited because of the hat discrepancy. It is not that they said that anything paranormal happened, but it just rings true it is an edited show. They can make things happen as they wish but are sloppy in the editing room.
2. There was another episode, I forgot which one, but Jason and Grant thought they heard something and turned to the camera guy and asked him if they were messing around with them. For them to ask the crew that would mean that they know that the crew does try to fake things.
3. It seems that Jason doesn't really like to talk about his own personal experience, because maybe it's just not true. When he does mention it in a book, he then goes on a TV show and basically says he was not sensitive, but that is not what he claimed in the book. Another thing that makes no sense.
I could go on but you get the drift. I think they just edit and fake things to get ratings as a TV entertainment show. They are getting paid for the show and roll with things, then won't comment on the things that people have a reason to question.
Keep up the good work with this site!!!!
bill kelly @ 8:20 pm
i recently saw the eastern states one again. the line i took most from re-seeing this was "we'll put it on the site and see what people say. those who believe will believe, those who dont wont." NEVER did they say the shadow caught was paranormal. thats why they went back. to prove it did or didnt. they never did
Andy O @ 9:10 am
I just recently stumbled onto this site. I too have watched every episode of Ghost Hunters. I too wonder if the Paranormal really is there. But, Jason and Grant seem to take every measure possible to see if there is a scientific reason or maybe even a outside source making these "Paranormal events" take place. I believe they do a good job and hope they have many more episodes for us to argue about if it is real or not.
Frank O @ 12:50 pm
First of all, thanks to Andy O. for directing me to this site. Second, thanks to this site for doing what it does to keep paranormal investigators honest.
When it comes to Ghost Hunters, I think it boils to this question:
Do I believe Jason & Grant are legit, or do I think they are hoaxers making money off of their show?
If you believe they are legit, then you really have no choice but believe in ghosts and the paranormal, based upon the video evidence they have given us in the show. Personally, out of everything I've seen, there has only been one episode that I doubted, and that was the one in the lighthouse. When they showed the video of th "shadow" leaning over the rail and looking at them, my first thought was "fake." But overall, I believe they are legit. The EVP's they have captured are downright freaky (do you remember "please just leave us alone.." from the toy store episode? It sent CHILLS down my spine), much of the video evidence is compelling, and the thermal image of the civil war era soldier in the basement was awesome.
Dave @ 2:49 pm
Re: “Do I believe Jason & Grant are legit, or do I think they are hoaxers making money off of their show?”
Actually, both. I think they started off with just an interest; however, once the show got going they because Goober and the Ghost chasers, and are not averse to exaggerating (and occasionally faking) certain incidents. The worst fake is Grant pulling the lamp cord to move the lamp across the table (see previous posts on the plantation). I think L. did a good job going over it. When I first watched that episode I actually didn’t worry about it – I just figured, hey! – just another ghost show. But I got into it more later.
I mean, what would you do if you had a chance to be on T/V, make more money than a plumber, and needed to keep the seasons going. I admit I might exaggerate things around the edges, but it’s unlikely I would fake them or except faked, or highly suspect to be something unusual but normal, evidence. Of course, if I were a team member, I wouldn't last a season with the Ghost Hunters.
On the other hand, the Ghost Hunters appear to make an effort to try to debunk things, but their attempts are generally half baked — however, their attempts do, artificially, make things "appear" to be more legit to the viewer.
– Dave
John @ 3:23 pm
I have personaly been in the ledge light house off the coast of Groton and New London, and have spoken to Coast Gaurdsmen stationed in the house and they have all said there is something strange going on. Some of them wouldn't even talk about what they have seen!
Dave @ 3:25 pm
Stef, … Right, that’s it, “a T/V show for entertainment.” But, like most people, I wonder how often genuine paranormal phenomena occurs, if ever. And, like most people, on this message board, I’m looking for the genuine article – which often means reevaluating the evidence and scrutinizing it. So the more I scrutinize it, the more likely I am to find flaws. Still, a couple of incidents have got me wondering.
– Dave
bill kelly @ 1:47 am
OK people. i'm not sold either way yet but will leave you this story. my friend knows a guy who needed a kidney transplant so his non-blood related aunt agreed to donate. before they were to go forward, they found an aneurysm on her kidney but the surgeon said it wouldnt be a problem. the guy told my friend that the last words spoken to him by his dying father was "i'll always protect." once he got out of surgery the guy told his mother he was fine because his father was in surgery with him. come to find out, once they took his aunt's kidney out, the aneurysm broke. the docs said
1. it could have ruptured and killed her within that year if she hadnt been tested.
2. she was the only one who could donate.
now tv shows are 1 thing and i didnt see the surgery, but i believe this happened 100% the guy, who has diabetes like his dad, has had many issues since but the kidney is 5 yrs in and 100% perfect.
so, just cos not everyone has seen the "paranormal" doesnt mean things arent out there.
Stefani @ 7:16 am
It all goes back to past history. It is kind of like Jason and Grant found a crop circle then were caught with equipment to make crop circles in the back of their truck. Now if they stumble across a crop circle they didn't make, who will really believe they didn't make it or someone around them. That is the problem. Not that I don't believe there are things out there, but you have to consider the source and what they have told you in the past that didn't jive but they tried to pass it off as such.
PaulAnthony @ 10:02 am
Crescent Hotel
Interesting: Comment:
University of Applied Sciences in Brandenburg, Germany:
First keep in mind that the "ghost" they see is standing on the door of a metal locker with the number two painted on in white. Second, keep in mind this comment by researchers at the University of Applied Sciences in Brandenburg, Germany:
"Thermal reflections are a common source of problems in interpreting infrared (IR) thermal images. In particular, atomically smooth surfaces like glass, metals [a locker door? -DV], or wet surfaces, and also brick and concrete, may easily give rise to reflections of infrared radiation from often uncared sources [sic]. If unnoticed, these thermal reflections may give rise to misinterpretations of the object temperature."
Why is the "2" hot? White paint reflects thermal radiation (heat), that's why wearing white on a summer day keeps you cooler than wearing black. Is it possible that the white number two is reflecting more heat than the metal of the locker?
Notice that when the TAPS guys attempt to repeat the effect they aim the thermal imaging camera to a spot to the left of the "2", and closer. We only see a small portion of what they saw originally. This is not a true recreation of the original event so it cannot be used in comparison. What I would conclude from this is that they may have been hiding something: the reality of the origin of the "ghost" perhaps. This is a TV show after all, it's entertainment, so they must leave something to the imagination.
Let's take a look at another clip, in which the same two TAPS members claim to hear a disembodied voice cry "help me" in the St. Augustine Light in Florida.
I hear what could very well have been a breathy wheeze from the off camera investigator, or maybe the cameraman himself. They are, after all, climbing the steep spiral staircase of a tall lighthouse. But wait, there's another. The same sound, like a wheeze. But certainly no "HELP ME!" There is no real resemblance to that phrase, just the suggestion of those words by the TAPS members. Listen again. It could have been "Oh!" or "NO!" or any number of other words. I certainly don't hear two words in there.
They're calling that a great piece of audio evidence suggesting ghostly activity, but as you can see I clearly introduced enough to leave room for doubt. There is absolutely no way they can use that as evidence of a supernatural event when other possibilities still exist. We can't rule out someone, somewhere else in the vicinity making noise either. Do we know for sure that they were the only people there? Do they?
Next they present fuzzy, dark shapes moving on the surveillance camera as evidence of a ghostly entity in the light house. I'll admit here that I do not know what the cause of the shape was, but I wouldn't rule out a trick of light and shadow caused by an outside light source. The lighthouse does have windows around it. Can we rule out a reflection from somewhere inside the lighthouse due to the rotating beacon? It's a far leap to claim a supernatural presence is the cause when they haven't exhausted every other possibility.
While that surveillance camera was setup, do they know for sure that no one else was in the area? Can we rule out a complete hoax for the sake of compelling TV? No.
Fans of TAPS, and TAPS members themselves, claim that the TAPS team is skeptical and looks hard to rule out every possibility, and first attempt to logically explain a phenomenon before actually admitting it might be of supernatural origin. I disagree. Just making that statement does not make it true.
From what I've seen here we can conclude that at least these two TAPS members do believe in ghosts, and they are presenting questionable sights and sounds as evidence of ghosts. That is not what a skeptic does. But hey, it makes for good TV, especially if that's what you're audience is looking for. It makes for additional revenue in DVD sales as well.
Drew Vics — 11-23-07
CrowTRobot @ 12:15 pm
I'm a skeptic, but
#4 Brenda's House: I believe the little girl's voice said, "They don't want us." Whether EVPs are real or not, I can see a mother easily upset by this and I thought her reaction was real. The other EVP was, "Can I come in?". Just sounded to me like a neighbor's kid saw all the people so she came over to see what was going on.
#19 Zubrowski's House: To be honest, this EVP of his grandfather is exactly how I'd expect one to sound.
But I agree with the others, I wish TAPS would let their clients hear the EVPs first to decipher for themselves before TAPS gives their opinion.
jim mencel @ 1:18 pm
on the Ogden house,my sister-in law grew up in that house that her parents owned for fifty years and i spent atleast 20 years worth of holidays and summers there.Never saw a thing.indian room was a root cellar, thats all,wasn't hidden ,had a door.